| Alec: this war might have been wrong to start, but it would be irresponsible to end it without winning. we should withdraw when the iraqi government has managed to end insurgency and bring peace and democracy to the country. it's too early for a timetable, |
| Sam B: Define "winning." |
| Sam B: I thought we were "winning." I thought the surge was working. |
| Liz: For the sake of argument, winning a battle is not the same as winning a war. That's the difference between the surge working and "winning." |
| Old Timer: I agree with Sam. |
| John Rose: Unlike a real war, there will never be an official "end" or "victory" to the violence in Iraq. There are no armies to surrender to us or leaders to sign agreements. The definition of "winning" then, depends on what level of violence is acceptable. |
| RalphA: To establish democracy in Iraq will take a couple of generations. Peace is unlikely. It will be a question of what level of violence is acceptable. Then the question will be, should we go back in after a few months when the level of violence goes |
| Russmor: Ralph: Iraq has the possibility of peace as does every country in the world however I will agree that it is unlikely at any point in the near future. However achieving this peace is not our responsibility. There are many who could argue we should hel |
| Sam B: What does everyone think about Prime Minister Maliki's recent statement that he thinks a troop pullout in 16 months sounds about right? |
| Liz: I mean, he would know. |
| GUARDIAN247: 1. "Peace" a level considered by many military service members can be defined as the ability to conduct business, practice religion, walk down a street without being targeted by a militia or insurgency group, vote in a presidential election without b |
| GUARDIAN247: 2. Peace in Iraq is America's obligation. We invaded, we dethroned their dictator, we decimated their armed forces; in the process destroyed countless crops, livestock, homes, business, etc. Therefore, as a world power, THE World Power, we have an ob |
| GUARDIAN247: Dang...not enough room |
| GUARDIAN247: I believe he was referring to "combat arms" pulling out and leaving the supporting elements in place to an extent. Who knows? This was fun. Questions? |
| GUARDIAN247: Trust me, not all politicians are as good public speakers as they are commanders. Pulling the troops out completely...he more than likely didn't mean it to sound that way because they do need a continuance of training and education militarily. I'm su |
| GUARDIAN247: 4. In reply to the question about President Maliki....oh, wait....a president and not a dictator? Plus one for the US in their surge. Back to the subject though, maybe he said what he said or meant something else. |
| GUARDIAN247: All a regular civilian like many of yourselves will have to worry about is "How hot are the Cinna-bons today?" Burger King is great over there I hear. |
| GUARDIAN247: Try walking around downtown Baghdad or even take a commercial flight into Baghdad International and you won't have to worry about a flak-jacket or a rifle. |
| GUARDIAN247: Today, there's less than 1000 left. CNN won't report it, neither will FoxNews, but BBC sure loves it, and so does the rest of Iraq. |
| GUARDIAN247: c. In reply to "I thought the surge was working:" Well, bless your soul, it is. AQI had a force as strong as 12,000 house-hiding, IED-making, baby-killing thugs. |
| GUARDIAN247: They'll tell you that tax dollars and US support brought about a boom throughout the world that not only signified the nuclear age, but the advancement in medicinal studies, computer technology, clean-energy production, robotics, satellite technology |
| GUARDIAN247: Did we support Germany in rebuilding them? You bet your bottom we did. We rebuilt Japan too, just ask the US Dept of Treasury...ask Microsoft, ask any airline mfg co or ship-building company. |
| GUARDIAN247: b. All of these nations, I must say, are doing quite well for themselves with our presence and support in rebuilding their nations. |
| GUARDIAN247: Staying in Iraq for 100 years, not such a bad thing...how long have troops been in Germany? Japan? The Phillippines, etc. |
| GUARDIAN247: a. Operation Iraqi Freedom: Yes, Iraq is free...but our committment, and our promise to the Iraqis to help them become a stable nation is never-ending. |
| GUARDIAN247: The truth is, certain terrorist organizations are constantly planning, constantly attacking, constantly being defeated, and constantly regrouping. This is a problem due to the nature of their organization. I suggest reading more about their "Cells" a |
| GUARDIAN247: Regarding the War on Terror, I think we're doing a pretty bang-up job regardless of the minute hiccups here and there. |
| GUARDIAN247: It's a war that we've fought many battles against opponents uniformed and not. The US Military has fought these battles with the aide of many different agencies, entities, and governments throughout the world. |
| GUARDIAN247: 3. "Winning". True, you can never tell the US Troops that a clear "End" to the war is in sight because we are not calling it the Global War in Iraq. It's called the Global War on Terrorism. |
| GUARDIAN247: Therefore, as a world power, THE World Power, we have an obligation to bring about the end of an unstable generation. |
| GUARDIAN247: 2. Peace in Iraq is America's obligation. We invaded, we dethroned their dictator, we decimated their armed forces; in the process destroyed countless crops, livestock, homes, business, etc. |
| GUARDIAN247: 1. "Peace" a level considered by many military service members can be defined as the ability to conduct business, practice religion, walk down a street without being targeted by a militia or insurgency group, vote in a presidential election without b |
| Liz: So what's your opinion on Maliki calling for a rough schedule for US troop withdrawals? |
| Liz: (Also, the posting character limit should be gone now.) |
| Old Timer: No, it's not too early for a time table. More troops are needed in Afghanistan to fight the real enemy. These cannot be found until we begin to release troops from Iraq. "Winning" as far as the U.S. is concerned is a much bigger issue than bringi |
| Jed Bartlet: Can someone please teach John McCain some Latin? "Post hoc ergo propter hoc"... a logical fallacy, "after it therefore because of it." Just because the drop in violence came after the surge doesn't mean it was because of ONLY the surge. |
| Al V: The time is ripe for a time table and necessary. Our focus should be on Afghanistan, where the real struggle is taking place. |
| Al V: Disagree. We need a time table now if for no other reason to make it possible to shift some forces to Afghanistan, where the real threat to our security has been all along. Even the Iraqi government, such as it is, is not opposed to early pullout. |
| Bob Johnson: It should be noted: The United States is not at war. Neither the president, nor the media, can declare war. Yes, as with Korea and Vietnam, we are in costly armed conflicts, but these are endeavors to fill the coffers of the "military-industrial (-media-oil) complex" (MIMOC). Follow the money to see who supports McCain and the GOP. Realize the TM after Global War on Terror(ism) is just that. |
| Bob Johnson: Jed, no one can teach McCain anything. He is simply too old to change. Not even the Rove-trained consultants sent in to rescue him from the Lime Jello backdrop can succeed. Didn't you just love his dry goods presser backdrop, reading from a card about the price of milk, and the obvious GOP hack? Even better, he pontificates in front of the Fudge Haus. |
| WLS: The only "can't teach him anything" in this election is Obama. He still doesn't think the surge in Iraq worked or that he was wrong. He can't admit that he could be wrong. He made up his mind about Iraq before he when thwere. But, even he admits that we are at war, Bob Johnson has his head in the sand.WLS |
| Jed Bartlet: WLS, that's one of the more bizarre talking-point regurgitations I've ever heard. First off, Obama had been on numerous trips to Iraq and Afghanistan before, not since 2006 if I remember. In any case, are we to suppose you can't have an opinion without having been there? How come you have an opinion? |
| Al V: I disagree -- a timetable is exactly what we need, so that we can begin to do the right things in Afghanistan and elsewhere in that area. |
| Michael Noir: I just want to know where Osama Bin Laden is? Can anyone answer this? It seems as though this legislation has lost site of the reason we're on this Terror hunt in the first place, Tuesday September 11th 2001! Last that I checked it was President Bush that vowed to find him no matter what? How easy was it for them to shift the focus of our fear and anger to Iraq? I'm just curious, because I remember when McCain first spoke out in support of the war he said that it would be a quick victory, we'd "wipe em out!" No he's changed to a tune of "I always said we would be in for the long haul"... Interesting... |
| blondehussy: I find it interesting that we are one of the few countries in the world that consider being "old" is to be senile. Take a good look at Churchill or Golda Mier. I have always thought that life experience was a very good teacher. |
| skptk: Agree with you Jed. It seems to me the results have a lot more to do with Petraus and his anti-insurgency tactics, ie., enlisting Sunni's and using them against Al Quaeda. While this is working to defeat the terrorists, it could prove to be a double edged sword down the road, as far as sectarian problems go. |
| deb: IF ANYONE CAN HEAR OR SEE-JOHN MCCAIN,THIS AFTERNOON WAS "PRETENDING" TO BE PRESIDENT ALREADY- WHO IS GOING TO JUMP ON THAT???I CAN'T BELIEVE CNN ACTUALLY AIRED HIS WAR MONGERING FOR AS LONG AS THEY DID.WHO DOES JOHN MCCAIN THINK HE IS??HE IS JUST LIKE GEORGE A.I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT HE THINKS THE U.S.A. IS GOING TO DO MILITARILY TO HELP GEORGIA!!!ALL OUR MEN AND WOMEN ARE FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE IN IRAQ, THANKS TO HIM AND HIS BUDDIES!THEY ARE EITHER HURT OR EXHAUSTED AND NEED TO COME HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES- NOT BE INVOLVED WITH ANOTHER WAR!!!JOHN MCCAIN NEEDS TO GO BACK TO ARIZONA AND...RETIRE!!!! |
| Zeke: Obama doesn't need to "admit to being wrong" on the surge because only time will tell if it has worked. Decreased violence in itself is no indicator and it's too early to tell whether significant, lasting process has been made. Westmoreland was talking about leaving Vietnam a year after we increased our presence there 20x in 2 years... because it seemed to be working. It wasn't. No amount of US troops in Iraq will solve the problem; this issue requires soft power and diplomacy - something which McCain sorely lacks. |
| Zeke: Oh, and as a disclaimer, I was interpreting "surge as a success" as whether or not it has had a lasting impact beyond the temp. increase in US troops. It's shortsighted and self-congratulatory to say the surge has succeeded if the sole deciding factor is a decrease in violence, since obviously a larger US force will be better able to clamp down on violence. Whether or not that decrease in violence is permanent, or (especially) allows for political gains, is the true measure of success... |
| yoyoturner8: personally i dont like john mccain he can lick my asshole that old piece of shit |
